Oct 13, 2011

Dead community

Well, like it has been, the NWN2 community is in massive decline.

I feel like you can discuss it more readily here than in a forum full of fan kiddies who put in days of effort to drown you out in a pile of argumentive posts.

Let's look at facts. The early mods of this community cleared 20k downloads in a year. Now they are hard pressed to hit 1k. I can't make it any simpler than that. Typically, something is considered defunct when it reaches it's "half-life". Well for that, even if we ignored the first explosive 6 months of NWN2, that was a solid 3 years ago.

But like I said, when anyone ever pointed out the decline, they caused a sh*tstorm of angry replies from people. Mostly people who never posted or add anything to the forums, but they always appear to rant like lunatics about its never-ending and always growing appeal. And then disappear again, leaving it to near silence as 100 posts per day became 10 per week.

I remember one particular poster who joined about 2 years ago asking if it was viable for him to start in this community, a project he had a long time frame for. It was not an accusation, just a question if the community was still valid. Surprise surprise there was another volley of "this ocmmunity is BETTER than it was before". Except this time it wasn't the old deny-er guard, because they had moved on. The few stragglers continue this denial, and even tried to claim it was the "prime" of the community, because 3 year production mods were coming out and NWN2 was going to steam etc etc.

Now what fuels this furious denials, and sometimes out right bs in the face of facts (claiming a community that is a percentage of it's former size is in it's prime or growing, for example) is beyond me. It's beyond me because I have long agreed the community was in decline, but I ended up staying longer than these blindly angry deny-er types, who today aren't even around to keep up the facade.

I really just find it a mystery what they really accomplished. Rather than paint an at least somewhat unbiased view based on facts, they lie, deny, quit and are never heard from again. Were they trying to trick new modders into joining and wasting their time? Convince others, or just them self? Either way they failed because they are gone, and others are not joining.

Really you have to decide for yourself however, when the community lacks an audience for you, as a modder. For me, my Islander would have done well to be released about a year sooner. Most of my fellow modders who I swapped ideas with in the early days (and by early I mean nearly a year after MOTB as thats when I joined), never saw me complete my campaign, nor play it, nor comment on it.

Everyone who has released a campaign that took more than a year (which is why some argue we are in the prime, because of the "multi-year" projects coming out) has abandoned the community immediately after. Some names?

Harp and Chrys
Trial and Terror
Misery Stone
Trinity


I'm sure if you're a follower you can fill in the other names.

I get a giggle out of the fact that as I wrote this, it took all of 8 minutes for someone to show up and write a pissy reply to my post on this topic. From the same person who fits the category above, of having nothing to say until his community's glaring emptiness is pointed out.

And there are a lot more visual cues than simply watching your module getting 2 to 3 downloads per month in the top ten list, or my rough math that tells me we are below 2% of our one time popularity with downloads and viewership.

Look at the forums themselves; our moderators have neither posted nor "moderated" a post in months. When the police leave the inmates to guard themselves, you know something less than ideal is going on. The vault fills with more spam than commentary and the ability to even upload has evaporated. People are already speculating where you can release works at this point.

I don't see why this is an issue; life moves on, and a 2006 spec game should not be expected to last into 2012. My only regret is there is no real successor; the dragon age toolset does not offer a decidedly better product so much as just newer, and it's overwhelming difficulty has seen its community misfire and shrink in only one year.

It could also be that people modded at a time in their life when they had too much spare time like myself, and simply had to outgrow it.

Anyway I figured I owed any of my 2 readers an explanation rather than a simply drop off the internet which I saw many of my fellows do and found rather... haunting. Haha it's like they were ashamed of it and wanted to "die to the modding world". Well here is where I went.

Personally I think it's a little sad the community wasn't just "shut down" formally around 2010 rather than see it in the state is has become. Not that I expected something like that, but it would be more humane. You got a handful of persistent hard working talent, and no audience at all, with more and more dysfunctionalities appearing daily.


Should a superior toolset product show it's head I may well be interested in a lesser capacity, but the complexity has really gotten such that it's more than a full time job to even use the full range of tools available.

9 comments:

  1. I hear what you are say as I have been around since the pre-release toolset. I build for myself and I like the nwn2 engine+toolset so I'll keep doing it as long as I enjoy it. I used to somewhat care about how many people played my modules, but after all the time I spent on Lanterna and the few resulting downloads I learned that the pay is very poor for building ;-) So I only build for myself to my specifications and the way I like it. If building is no longer fun then it is time to move on. If you mostly build for others to play, you will always be very disappointed. Maybe you'll still check out IWD when the last chapter is done. Good luck to you and don't be too much of a stranger. We'll always have our Podcast interview to listen to and reminisce ;-)
    -slowdive
    p.s. I've been working on writting my own cRPG engine and toolset in C#. Coming along very well so far...

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  2. Hmmmm... What a shame. Ima gonna go search the forums for a post we're you don't moan and complain, give sarcastic flippant responses and proclaim how everything is doomed or crap or buggy and broken. I'll be back with my findings.

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  3. Ok results are in. Just found the one were you cheerfully released Islander but it was quickly followed by a complaint about poor download numbers and other authors hogging the new modules section.

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  4. Slow dive I believe you do have my email from the interview. Man did you ever take a huge hiatus before coming back recently to finish IWD.
    And you seem to have gained all kinds of 3d modelling ability I never had ( I still cringe thinking about that big tree I built, if you used it lol).


    If C# is something you are seriously pursuing I am definitely down to check it out or test in some manner. One of the realizations about NWN2 is that its just so old, for me to even think of using it I would have to custom content absolutely everything so it felt fresh. So let me check out your custom game!

    Before you do too much yourself though, there is an engine out there apparently (see comment on my previous post) or you can read Hoegbo's blog.
    You can do everything you want, but at least a base engine is in place.

    To the anonymous fanboy making posts on my blog, I never cheerfully released anything. So don't waste my blogspace with your nameless nonsense.

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  5. A word from not a modder, but a PW RPer who's seen the same decline in the servers out there; the NWN1 community still seems to be going comparitively strong. I don't know if that's true of modding and releasing campaigns, I haven't looked, but the players still seem to be there on the NWN1 PWs, which is more than can be said for NWN2.

    I know many people will want to move forwards rather than 'backwards', but for those who're still missing their NWN fix, just a thought...

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  6. I know what you mean about not moving backward Jewel, and your advice is very relevant. As per my previous post, I know dragon age is already dried up, and additionally I do not considerd it a move forward due to its many limitations. But even if it was, the community lacks.

    I think people misunderstood my post anyway regarding downloads etc; I only used that as a measure of the size of the community briefly. Its the "community" that is dead... people don't talk anymore, or show up in droves to pitch and critique ideas and screenshots, or report on their projects continuously.

    I consider a community downloading a module 1k a year and having 50 posts a day much more fun than say 5k and 2 posts. Sadly there is neither available, in any toolset I see, but I thank you again for the suggestion.

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  7. Sadly, I agree on everything you say. I still build though. But only for myself and sometimes a bit of modding for my gaming group. I'd love finish my campaign and release it. But there's about 600 hours in it. It's lot less than Return to the Underground Empire but still too much. I'd at least like to have 10 players per hour I work :) As said before- NWN1 still has more players than NWN2 had a year ago. Even I has started to play some new modules. Ugly and old but fun as hell

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  8. Hi EE,

    Sorry this is a late post to the thread, but I have been a little preoccupied myself the last few weeks.

    Yes, I suppose it is inevitable that NWN2 will gradually lose more and more followers. Then again, personally, if I had worried about that when I first started modding, I would never have started in the first place.

    Back in a minute .. got a phonecall.

    Lance.

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  9. That phonecall really distracted me .... it's a few days later, but, what was I saying ...

    NWN2 lifespan ... Well, it's always been about designing my D&D campaign on the computer for me, and then playing with my group of players ... although only two remain. :(

    Having *any* more audiance above that is very much appreciated, and so if even just the people who are faithfully follwoing my blog play, I will be delighted!

    Lance.

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